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| Tuck the x-brace under the lining or not? http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=9170 |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sun Nov 05, 2006 6:09 am ] |
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I've been toying with the idea of stopping the x-brace short of the linning on the lower bout of my new SS design. That would allow the top to float more freely, especially if I thinned the top just before it reached the sides. Good idea or bad? |
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| Author: | Mario [ Sun Nov 05, 2006 6:25 am ] |
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That's the way I do it. Tuck the front, float the rear. Thin them to a feathered edge to avoid creating a stress riser. |
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| Author: | Lillian F-W [ Sun Nov 05, 2006 6:33 am ] |
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Mario, help me out. Which is the front and which is the rear of the X brace? |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sun Nov 05, 2006 6:35 am ] |
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It does seem to make sense. Especially when you read how Taylor's magic rout around the edge improves top response. If you go to that much trouble then just span it with an x-brace it seems it would negate the whole deal. The only negative I can think of is the possibility of a top fracture at that point, but with the way the grain is oriented it is very doubtful. |
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| Author: | Mario [ Sun Nov 05, 2006 6:47 am ] |
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Lillian, the rear is,well, at the rear <bg> Rear is the tail block end, the end pin end. |
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| Author: | Lillian F-W [ Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:22 am ] |
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Thanks. |
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| Author: | old man [ Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:18 am ] |
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Mario, are the x-brace front ends the only tucking you do on the whole top? Ron |
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| Author: | Mario [ Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:30 am ] |
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Nope. Everything forward of the soundhole gets tucked. |
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| Author: | Mike Collins [ Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:41 am ] |
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I tuck because I've fixed to many loose braces on tops that had untucked braces! You can still feather the brace but just make sure the brace is supported in the lining so a slight tap of the top doesn't dislodge it. Mike |
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| Author: | old man [ Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:27 pm ] |
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I tuck everything forward of the sound hole also, but so far I've also tucked the lower ends of the x-brace. Ron |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:22 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=Mike Collins] I tuck because I've fixed to many loose braces on tops that had untucked braces! [/QUOTE] That is interesting, I never thought that the untucked brace may have a tendency to come loose! Something to think about! |
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| Author: | Mario [ Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:34 pm ] |
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That's why you-must- feather the brace end if you aren't going to tuck it. I, too, have seen and repaired plenty of these loose braces, but every one was cut bluntly. What happens is when stressed, it peels. Result is a popped brace end. But if you feather it to nothing over the course of at least an inch, it can flex for that whole inch or more if stressed, and will not peel. Very simply, yet effective, engineering. |
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| Author: | Steve Saville [ Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:02 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Mike Collins] I tuck because I've fixed to many loose braces on tops that had untucked braces![/QUOTE] Do tucked braces ever come loose? |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:20 am ] |
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I have done like Mario's for all but my first guitar and have never had one pop yet (Knock on wood) 
I believe what happens with the end of the brace if its thinned enough is it will flex along with the top if its bumped, where as with a blunt end and sharp edge will have a tendency to peel, or pop. |
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| Author: | Scott van Linge [ Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:25 am ] |
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I believe it is necessary to tuck the bottom legs of the X brace into the kerfing to deliver energy to the lower bout and the sides. I do not think the side or belly braces should be tucked in, and feather them to zero at the kerfing. Check out the subject re: Tapered/Parabolic OM's, at http://luthiersforum.3element.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID= 8651&PN=1&TPN=1 There's too much there to go into again. Scott |
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| Author: | Mario [ Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:46 am ] |
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<sigh> |
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| Author: | paul harrell [ Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:59 am ] |
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Mario - Your self control is amazing. I will practice self control too, I will practice self control too, I will practice self control too........................ Peace, Paul |
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| Author: | Kim [ Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:51 pm ] |
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Me to Hesh, After all, is'nt that the whole point of an OPEN forum? You say your bit and allow the reader to eat the meat and spit out the bones. I for one rejoice in being able to digest what ever I consider to be food for thought, no pre-chewing of any ideas, theories or suggestions are required here. Peace to all Kim |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:59 pm ] |
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Hesh, that is a good reminder. WE ALL know there are as many ways to do something as there are people doing it 
Lets keep respect and peace above all else. A good friend of mine uses this quote often. "Tastes Great, Less Filling"  |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:15 pm ] |
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I agree guys. No one ever forced anyone here to believe what we're all saying. It could all be hogwash and snake oil for all we know  . Hey, don't hogs wash in snake oil?
You all know what I meen I hope. Everyone has an opinion and is entitled to that opinion. Heck, I still believe that the earth is flat for pete's sake |
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| Author: | Kim [ Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:43 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=Rod True] Heck, I still believe that the earth is flat for pete's sake [/QUOTE]
Rod the world is actually a conical shape with the pointy end bearing down fully upon me to hurry up and make my first guitar
Peace Kim |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:36 pm ] |
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Yes, you guys are absolutely right... This is a forum and as such, exchange of ideas should be encouraged and respected... Like my good moma says, 'If you don't have anything positive to say, then don't say anything at all'... Many times I find myself deleting replies because I feel they don't add to the thread at hand... Peace, |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:05 am ] |
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Forget the tuck rule or the no-tuck rule. I don't believe you need an X-brace at all. That's way too much structure for a guitar top. Try this: NO bracing below the upper bout, except the bridge patch. You'll get an explosion of sound like nothing you've ever heard or seen.
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